With Jan Kodet Regarding the Premiere of the National Theatre Ballet Production The Sorcerer's Apprentice
On Thursday and Friday there is premiere of a "dance horror piece" The Sorcerer's Apprentice, a new ballet production, which revives on the stage of the National Theatre an old Sorbian legend of Krabat and a secret brotherhood of magic lore. The piece is choreographed by Jan Kodet, whom we halfway through the pre-premiere bustle asked for an interview.It is about a week to the opening night of your new show, a feature-length ballet The Sorcerer's Apprentice. At what stage of mounting the piece are you now and what are you working on at the moment?
Today there was the second rehearsal with orchestra, as for choreography, I just finished the last scene that had been missing so far. I'm glad that I will not have to create the choreography during the forthcoming final rehearsals. I knew that we would have a major deficit in rehearsals, because a week ago some dancers performed in completely different ballets. There was no such thing before the merger of the National Theatre and Prague State Opera ballet companies. In my production I have several dancers of the former State Opera ensemble, who still perform at their former theatre, so it kind of clashes. For instance, if someone from the first cast gets sick, the second cast gets to the principal rehearsal schedule instead, but at the same time he or she performs in the standard repertoire... We try to sort out a lot of things in advance, but not always it really works. Anyway, the dressmakers are really helpful and even though they are obliged to deliver the finished costumes by the time of the first dress rehearsal, we have two-thirds of the costumes ready even now. The first dress rehearsal is on Thursday (exactly one week before the premiere). All the components should merge together there, there will be an orchestra, stage settings, costumes and lighting. It will be a hard day for us, because with ballet the usual way is that both casts rehearse their parts. But I can tell even now that we will not manage to do both of them.
How many dancers perform in the piece?
At the moment we have two casts of solo roles and a corps de ballet. Anyway, these are not really a typical ballet corps, they do not work like that. Rather, they are a group that does quite a lot of dancing there. And they will not change off, they dance both premieres. Six soloists work really hard in the piece, but we can say that the whole cast is about 28 dancers altogether. Solo parts intertwine with corps de ballet ones, at maximum there are about 24 people dancing on the stage at the same time.
What dance material do you work with in your production?
I would call the piece rather a dance theatre production. The story is narated in a really theatrical way. I tried to employ a modern, contemporary material. To make it narrative on one hand, but at the same time make sure that it is not a pantomime. I strived to create specific situations by means of an abstract language and tell the story through metaphors. There are moments when we use simple, informal, even banal gestures, very recognizable and very dumbed down, but in some rather peculiar stylization. And on the contrary, there are parts where we use abstract dance. These two attitudes are much intertwined in the show.
Who are the main characters in the ballet?
An important character that goes through the entire plot is Krabat, another one is the Master. Th
ese are the two leading male characters, but there are also two major female roles. In comparison to the literary source we have renamed them because the original names seemed a bit old-fashioned to us and the present-day audiences would probably find them funny - one of them was Kantorka (it was not actually a name, but a nickname for a girl who sang to the procession, ed. red.), the other one was Voršula. In our production the main character is Kristýnka, the other girl is Dorotka. Our choice was also based on the symbolism of the names. The first name suggests salvation, purity, Dorotka then sounds to me as something that would fit well to Lusatia.Of the other solo roles there is Toník, Krabat’s best friend, and then Jura, such a good-hearted person who contributes to the fact that Krabat and Kristýnka are saved in the end. Then there is also Master’s lackey Lyško (with those we have kept the original names).
Have you already had any particular dancers for the roles in mind beforehand or was there a standard audition?
Well, audition took place, anyway, I had known from the very beginning whom I wanted to be the Master and Krabat. So actually there was no audition for the male roles. I had also known from the beginning that Zuzka Šimáková would be Kristýnka and Zuzka Susová would be the first cast for Dorotka. I had a clear idea of what the roles should look like. Still there was audition for the second and third cast of the female roles. In the end the other Kristýnka, the most important female character, is performed by Morgan Lanoue, a corps de ballet dancer of the former State Opera ensemble. Dorotka should be more mature and sensual than Kristýnka, who is pure, innocent. Dorotka should act as her guide. They have sort of a relational parallel with Toník and Krabat.
And what about the company’s artistic director Petr Zuska as the Master? Two years ago, when I was thinking about who would perform the part of Master, I saw yet another person in that role, but I haven’t chosen him in the end. You can have some idea about the cast, but when a project is outlined so much in advance, the dancer may change, or even „deteriorate“ in the meantime. Anyway, I knew that I would like to have Petr Zuska in the piece. To me, Saša Katsapov has been the first cast from the beginning, though I do not see much difference between the casts now, for instance both Krabats are very much equal and I think it does not really matter which of the two the audiences see. Petr Zuska is currently very busy. Anyway, due to his dramatic performance and charisma he is excellent in the role and I hope that despite his workload he will be able to perform it.
What audience did you aim for with this production?
Well, first of all we had teenagers in our minds, say, people between 12 and 16 years of age. That is why I wanted The Sorcerer's Apprentice to be a challenge that would somehow enrich the young audiences. I will be glad if they see the production as a combination of art and experience, a combination of dance and theatre that would educate them a bit, in a good way. I did not want to underestimate them, but give them a challenge. There are situations that are very clear, but then there are also very abstract moments. Therefore it is up to every spectator, how he or she will understand them.
Could you say something more to the formation of the piece and to the collaboration with the duo of directors Skutr (Lukáš Trpišovský, Martin Kukučka)? What came first, the theme or the idea of working together?
Some time after Goldilocks Zbyněk Matějů came to me saying he would like to do something together with me. This gave rise to Kevel, a dance quartet accompanied live by a clarinet quartet Clarinet Factory. It was performed at Tanec Praha too. It was quite successful and we enjoyed it. Zbyněk was really excited and even back then we worked in a very minimalist way. Music was based on repetitive, monotonous lines, so it was very much suitable for dancing, too. Zbyněk wanted to go on, he was active, while I was talking with students at the Academy of Performing Arts about fairy tales and legends a lot back then. At that time one of the pedagogues there was Lukáš Trpišovský. So we naturally talked together and he came up with the idea of The Sorcerer's Apprentice. Thus the whole project was initiated by Zbyněk Matějů, Lukáš then came up with the subject matter. Only later we agreed that both of the duo Skutr would work on the production and then we approached Petr Zuska. At first we did not expect that the new piece would be staged at the National Theatre at all. However, Petr was quite enthusiastic about it, having absolutely no idea that I wanted to have him in the production. I told him relatively late, when I started with auditions. In the end he agreed on the condition that there would be a third cast for the role of the Master.
It's been about two and a half years since we started to work on the project. An interval like that seems a bit odd to me. First it drags on, now that we have been rehearsing since the beginning of January it's such a stress that for the last 14 days I had almost no idea come to me. Even with Goldilocks it was not like this. There is a tremendous disproportion between the preparations and the final rehearsing. One simply cannot work like this. There is absolutely no time to make experiments or fiddle with the movement. I could do that back in November, when I worked on some solo parts, but not at this point anymore, which makes me sad.
What is the cooperation with Skutr like?
Well, I got exactly what I expected, maybe even more. I knew Lukáš Trpišovský really well, we started to write the libretto together. Martin joined us soon afterwards, so in the end the libretto was written by all three of us. When then staging itself began, it was a kind of work I had probably never experienced before... For me it is convenient that they indeed put their time in the project. They are in the studio watching and available at my slightest indication anytime I need. They just work very well and complement each other. Martin is the more active of the two in terms of stage practice, physical presence, spatial vision and immediate advice. On the other hand, Lukáš is watching other things, he is far more familiar with the music, he is supervising dramaturgy and meanings of situations.
I have been a bit hysterical for the last month and Skutr accepted it, they are the calm ones who put me back on my feet all the time and always help me a lot. I have to say it is really nice, because sometimes I am really sick and tired. I even think that we are sort of connected to each other. If they do not like anything or something seems too little to them, they really tell you. On the other hand, they also praise, which is not so common in the dance world.
We sometimes have doubts and change things even when it is not really necessary. And they would come in and say "That's great, well done, don't change it." They work a lot on the technical aspects, because as finishing the dance part has become quite intense lately, I have absolutely no time to do the lighting, which I always did. So Skutr together with Dan Tesař have done almost all the lighting for me. Overall I have to say that the whole team is good, the dressmakers, the stage design. I am satisfied, I cannot say a bad word about anyone.We have been struggling a bit with the music recently, because its creation was not the smoothest one, which was partly given by the recording process as well. In the production the music is partly played from the tape and partly performed live by an orchestra. However, whereas there are only 15 musicians playing live in the orchestra, on the tape there are about 60 of them. In addition to that there are also some distortions. It's quite complicated and I wonder what it will look like in the end, because there are moments when the live orchestra is not playing and the spectator will see that it is not playing. But Zbyněk Matějů wanted to have such transmutations there. How would you compare working on ballets Goldilocks and The Sorcerer's Apprentice?
I wanted to go my own way a bit more this time. Because when you tell a story and you know that it is for kids, you cannot just selfishly create, regardless of what the kids would or would not get from it in the end. With Goldilocks it was important that the story and stage setting were easy to understand, that the production was really created for small kids. That was my goal. I have many friends who say they went to see the Russian version of The Nutcracker when they were little and did not feel like seeing another ballet piece in a theatre for another twenty years. With Goldilocks, me and Ondřej Havelka wanted to make the children familiar with theatre in such a positive way that they would enjoy coming back. I had a similar goal here – so that the teenagers or even adults who see the show would say to themselves afterwards they had no idea that something like that was performed at the National Theatre. When I go to see the Swan Lake or the Sleeping Beauty, just by looking at the promotional material I already have an idea what the production is like and what direction it would follow. The Sorcerer's Apprentice is not strictly a ballet piece, but there is a certain mystical appeal in its 'wizard subject', which is due to Harry Potter attractive. So I think that this subject might address and captivate a new generation of spectators if the production is really good, which is what I hope for.
On the other hand, I wanted The Sorcerer's Apprentice to go my way a little bit too. I have this feeling especially about solo parts, which really look like „my“ way of modern dance. For the dancers of the National Theatre Ballet it is definitely a very modern movement material. To me, there are parts that I really identify with, I hold by them. And then, there are parts that simply should be there as they provide contrast to something else. For example, there are girls in pointe shoes, although pointe shoes are not my cup of tea. But in certain situations and in combination with costumes they make sense.
What movement material do you use?
I work with dancers of the National Theatre Ballet, so, there is a group of people who are able to move in a very up-to-date, contemporary way. But then there is also a large group of people who have all the technique, but certain features of their classical training are still deeply rooted in the way they move and they cannot deny them completely.
I must admit that I still struggle with this when creating a new piece. There is no time to get it to the end completely, moreover, a large group of dancers is concerned. There will always be a half of the cast that is quicker and able to master the style of movement better. Sometimes it happens that I start to work for the other half just to make the choreography look good on them and easier to master. I am not saying that they are not good dancers, just some things suit them better than others. It is all about compromise.
Overall, I cannot say that the movement material in The Sorcerer's Apprentice is something really new in the context of my creative output. People who follow my work would probably recognize some movements or style that is typical of me. On the other hand there are some things that are really miles away from ballets such as Goldilocks.
What would you like the production to become and what would you like the audiences to get from it?
I would like the audiences to see something not seen at the National Theatre before, or, as for the younger ones, something they might have never seen before. I will be glad if they enjoy attending the production, such as they do with Solo for Three for instance, the fame of which has spread by word of mouth. People realised it was a good production and recommended it to others, although it is not a well-known ballet piece.
In addition to the National Theatre Ballet, you also collaborate with the Opera, you create choreographies for operas. How do you combine these two activities? And what about your creative output as a freelancer, is there any time for it at all?
I miss it. There are absolutely different possibilities as for time management. When you are a freelancer, you can choose your own rhythm, you can decide when and how often you are going to work, how many hours a day and when the opening night will be. At the National Theatre you are pushed by performance schedule, by availability of dancers, working hours, by tours, the number of which has been constantly increasing, even though a rehearsal schedule has been already established. I miss being a freelancer, because I get energy from that, as well as I do from teaching. I need to teach to be able to choreograph, and vice versa. There is a certain balance in it.
Two years ago I was supposed to do an interesting project in Munich, but we did not receive a sufficient grant support in the end. All costs were later covered by one theatre in Munich, unfortunately, they told me that only three months after I had signed a contract to create choreography for the opera Gloriana. So I could not do the project in the end. The project was later finished and I was really sad I could not work on it because that was precisely what I needed, something like an energy boost to me.
Anyway, I do not give up, even though I have been already pigeonholed as someone who works at the National Theatre and has thus the opportunity to create and does not need any subsidies, grants and so on. Still, working as a freelancer is something really different to me. My take on opera has changed too – since I started to work with Jirka Heřman, I have really enjoyed it. In working with him there is some freedom, nevertheless, he also knows exactly what he wants and has a great respect for the movement part, which is quite rare. Except for Parsifal, where there is just a little of dancing, the outcome of our cooperation has been so good, because there is mutual trust between us and a good combination of freedom and some structure. Moreover, in most cases there is a beautiful and inspirational music, which always helps. I hadn’t done any opera before, but now I really got into it. I cannot even say that the choreographies that I create for opera productions were somehow different. The Opera Ballet have greatly improved over time, they work in a professional way and I like working with them and really enjoy it. Lucie Holánková assists me, she also takes care of the productions that are currently running and works with Jirka Heřman when I am not available, such as recently with the opera Jakobín for instance.
What are your plans for the future?
I hope some “freelance project” comes, I would really need that. Our collaboration with Jiří Heřman will probably continue, too. As soon as I am finished with The Sorcerer's Apprentice, I will start working on a new piece, again in cooperation with Skutr, in particular it will be for the Summer Shakespeare Festival at the Prague Castle. I really look forward to it, it will be a more theatrical work and I welcome the change. It will be a totally different experience.
Jan Kodet was born in 1968 in Prague. He received his basic dance training in the Charles University Artistic Ensemble (later Taneční divadlo Praha), the member of which he was for nine years. While there, he had the opportunity to work with leading personalities of modern dance of the period (Ivanka Kubicová, Jan Hartman, Marcela Benoniová). In 1991 he graduated from the Dance Department of the Academy of Performing Arts – major in pedagogy of modern dance by Ivanka Kubicová. He also worked as a dancer in several foreign theatres such as Dance Berlin, S.O.A.P. Dance Theatre Frankfurt or Ballet Gulbenkian, where he met choreographers such as Ohad Naharin, Nacho Duato, Paulo Ribeiro, Itzik Galili, etc. To him, the most important one has been the Portuguese choreographer Rui Horta, he danced in his company for several years and later worked as his assistant with numerous European ensembles (Cullberg Ballet, Compagnie National de Marseille, Icelandic Ballet, etc.) Currently he is one of the leading personalities of Czech contemporary dance scene. He has created a number of successful projects both in the Czech Republic and abroad, such as Danse Macabre (Divadlo Archa), 6x Eva, Evička, No End, Adam + Eve - Coincidence Does Not Exist, Gates (Trans Dance Europe), Cala Estreta, Jade (Gulbenkian Ballet, Lisbon), Chrysalis (BDT Bratislava), About Firewomen and Other Stories (Hochschule FFM), Raumtraumen (St. Gallen), Lola & Mr.Talk (Divadlo Archa, Theatre News and Sazka Prize for best choreographyof the season 2003-2004), Talking with Frida (Prague Dance Conservatory, National Theatre Brno Ballet), Argonauts (Laterna Magika), Duel (National Theatre Ballet in Prague), Goldilocks (National Theatre Ballet in Prague), (e)MOTION PURE, Light Symphony and Kevel (Ponec Theatre, the Audience Award at the Czech Dance Platform 2007), Rusalka (National Theatre Opera in Prague), Camoufl•AGE (National Theatre Ballet in Prague, Theatre News and Sazka Prize for best choreography of the season 2008-2009), Miracles of Mary, Parsifal, Gloriana (all National Theatre Opera in Prague),Touches of the dream book (Prague Chamber Ballet). He teaches modern dance technique, improvisation and composition at several dance schools both in the Czech Republic and abroad (Hochschule für Tanz Frankfurt am Main, Institut del Teatro Barcelona, Stockholm Ballet Academy, Iwanson International München, Nordance Dance Company in Sweden, DV8 in London, Carte Blanche in Norway etc.) As a pedagogue he has participated in a number of international workshops, he is the co-founder and artistic director of the International Contemporary Dance Workshop Prague (ICDW). In Prague he teaches choreography at the Dance Department of the Academy of Performing Arts, he collaborates with the Prague Dance Conservatory, Prague Dance Center and works as a ballet master at the National Theatre Ballet.
Josef Bartos
Thank you for your thoughts. One got stuck in my mind – that passion makes us different from AI. Just yesterday I read…I am a dance critic. I am a member of an endangered species